How to Identify Truly Pasture-Raised and Ethically-raised Meat: With Paul from Pasturebird
Grounded Wellness Podcast: Episode 3
On the latest episode of our Grounded Wellness podcast, we sat down with Paul Greive from Pasturebird to talk about his personal journey with regenerative farming and the need for more ethical and transparent meat production. He helped us understand confusing marketing terminology and why things aren’t always as they seem with meat labels – or vegan and vegetarian-focused foods. We’ve adapted the conversation to written format, but if you want to dive even deeper, check out the full episode here. It was filmed on our regenerative farm plot under the cottonwood tree.
If you value a nutrient-dense, flavorful, and whole-food diet, you’ll love this conversation. We spoke with farmer Paul from Pasturebird about the regenerative farming movement and how to find truly clean meat.
As co-founder of the pasture-raised chicken brand Pasturebird, he has a lot of valuable knowledge. He brings clarity to confusing topics, trends, and marketing tactics you need to be aware of in the meat industry. This includes the lie that meat is bad for the environment.
There are hardly any regulations around “natural,” “healthy,” or “ethical” food claims. So how do you know where your food is coming from and if it’s really what it claims to be?
This conversation cuts through the noise to help decipher which brands are legit, what questions to ask, and how to tell the difference for yourself.
Let’s dig in.
Meet Our Guest: Paul Greive, Co-Founder of Pasturebird, an Accessible Pasture-Raised Chicken Brand
Our founder, Bethany, sat with Paul, her brother-in-law, on our regenerative farm plot. Barefoot on the earth and sipping on liver smoothies, they discussed two important things. Clean meat and regenerative agriculture.
Paul’s story starts with years of battling Lyme disease, eventually leading him to regenerative farming. After switching to a paleo diet, Paul realized that food truly can be medicine. Soon, his whole family was on the clean-eating train.
They had no trouble finding foods like grass-fed beef or organic produce. But they couldn’t find pasture-raised chicken or pasture-raised eggs – even at local farmers' markets.
As Paul puts it, even today, 99% of chickens are raised in a stationary environment – for better or worse. Pasture-raised chicken fed an organic and soy-free diet, with true foraging access was virtually nonexistent.
He and his brothers joked, saying they should get some chickens as a backyard hobby. The rest was history. The humble beginnings of their family business, Primal Pastures, started with pasture-raised chickens. Here’s why:
- They were cheap
- They don’t need much land
- They’re small and easy to take care of
As the business grew, they realized there was far more interest than anticipated. Something as simple as pasture-raised chicken was positively impacting the health of many families.
“I was proud of the product, and people loved it. And we got so much confirmation when we got to feed families with kids that are going through serious health complications. They would come seek us out and it was like, ‘whoa. There's a weight to what we're doing.’ I didn’t realize this stuff really is important to people, and that meant a lot to us early on.”
As the demand for pasture-raised chickens grew, they tried to keep up. But eventually, they came to a standstill.
They were limited in their distribution, and the chicken was very expensive – around $40 for a whole pasture-raised chicken. Out of this problem, the idea of Pasturebird was born.
Paul and Jeff (Bethany’s husband) wanted to lower costs, make it more affordable, and potentially earn a spot in nationwide groceries. It wasn’t easy, but they made it happen. They even invented their own patented automated range coop with solar power to provide shade and shelter.
Eventually, they secured a partnership with Perdue, who was interested in authentic pasture-raised chickens and pasture-raised eggs on a larger scale. As Paul so beautifully put it, he believes we need both.
We need small-scale hyper-regenerative practices and larger-scale accessible, affordable options in the grocery. They’re both important but have different missions.
But as consumers, it’s hard to know: Where does the meat really come from, and how can I confirm it’s ethically-raised meat?
Paul is the perfect person to help answer this question.
Greenwashed Labels: Deciphering TRULY Ethically-raised Meat
As Paul points out, any brand can make you think it produces clean and responsibly raised meat. There are hardly any regulations, especially with the term pasture-raised.
Similar to greenwashing in the personal care industry, these ethical-sounding claims don’t often mean what you think. Marketing jargon is used to elicit emotion. Thankfully, Paul walked us through each of the main claims for ethical meat (as well as other animal-based proteins) to give us a better understanding.
Cage-Free Chicken + Cage-Free Eggs
Did you know chickens used to be raised cramped in wire cages? (Some still are). So the term “cage-free chicken” or “cage-free eggs” should imply that these chickens can freely move around, right?
Here’s what Paul had to say about this ethical meat claim:
“Cage-free chickens/cage-free eggs don’t actually mean that much. Think of a 600-foot-long building with 24,000 birds. They’re living, eating, sleeping, and pooping all in the same place. I mean, that's maybe a step up, but cage-free doesn't really mean what people think it means. You think of a bunch of animals running around in a big open field. But that’s not even close to what that means.”
He painted the perfect picture of why this way of raising chickens is so unnatural. Comparing chickens to little T-Rexes, he spoke of how chickens are naturally curious. They’re hunters and, most importantly, omnivores. Chickens need access to:
- Forages
- Bugs
- Worms
- Grasses
- Seeds
Without access to these resources and living in cramped quarters, chickens will peck each other. So, unfortunately, their beaks usually have to be cut – hardly feels ethical, right? On top of that, many cage-free chickens are fed a vegetarian diet – even though they’re not vegetarians. Without the proper biological diet, the nutrient density of your meat suffers.
As Paul pointed out, it’s pretty wild that vegetarian-fed chickens have become a marketing asset. They’re biologically omnivores! It just goes to show that marketing stops at nothing.
At Pasturebird, their pasture-raised chickens are free to forage unhindered. They even eat bugs like scorpions and remnants of rodent animals. It may sound gross, but as Paul says, it’s what chickens should be eating.
Free-Range Chicken
Paul enlightened us on this one. To make a farm free-range and produce “free-range chicken,” you have to have at least one opening outside for birds to access the outdoors. But as Paul pointed out, they’re still packed in warehouses.
So, as you can imagine, many of them never make it outside their entire lives. Yet they’re labeled as free-range chickens or free-range eggs. (He predicts that only 1-2% get outside in their lifetime.)
He also walked us through the irony of free-range chickens that aren’t given a very conducive environment even if they do get out:
“While free-range chicken sounds really good, what it really means is the birds are free to range outside. It doesn't actually mean they ever went outside. Here's what you have to understand about chickens: They're prey animals. They don't really want to just run out into a big open field – they wouldn’t in nature. They're chased by hawks, eagles, owls, dogs, coyotes, and predators. And generally, they’re staying in the shade. They want to be close to their food and water every day.”
Really sheds some light on this, huh?
To Paul, the issue is more about the lack of honesty and transparency when it comes to labels like free-range chicken. Labels need to mean something again.
Organic Chicken
Most people see the words organic chicken and probably think of chickens running around on green rolling hills, but that’s just not the case.
Here’s how Paul described organic chicken: They’re basically free-range chickens with the addition of organic feed. Another factor to consider is that most farms are in the north, where it can be -20 degrees. Without food, shade, or water, they have no reason to leave the warehouse.
An issue with organic chicken is the quality of the feed. It often comes from overseas. With questionable standards for imported organics, it makes sense to question the quality of the meat, too. Even organic chicken can only be as nutrient-dense as the diet they’re consuming. As he reflected on the origins of organic practices, we couldn’t help but agree:
“What the founding fathers of organic practices intended is a far cry from what it is today. It was set up with the right intentions, but it's largely industrialized now, and it doesn't mean what people think necessarily. Yeah, there are some companies doing a much better job than others. But there are a lot of loopholes within organic, too.”
The takeaway? It’s an improvement, for sure. But at the end of the day, it’s not wildly different.
Grass-Fed Beef + Grass-Fed and Finished Beef
Grass-fed entails raising cows living outside on a pasture and eating grass, right?
As Paul helped us learn, all cows are probably grass-fed at some point. But even with grass-fed beef, regulations allow you to raise them any way you want for the last 90 days of their lives. So, in some cases, grass-fed can literally mean nothing.
“You’d think [grass-fed] means an idyllic pastoral setting. But, they can be living in a feedlot, eating corn and soybeans, up to their ankles in manure – yet sold as grass-fed.”
Biologically speaking, cows have ruminant stomachs. This means they’re not supposed to have grains. Their bodies are only designed to digest grass. But many of these “grass-fed” brands find loopholes.
“You could have an animal that lives in a feedlot for 90 days and still be grass-finished or 100% grass-fed. How's that?
Well, you could still feed animals grass pellets. You can use industrial, monocrop alfalfa fields and feed them inside a feedlot setting. It could be more efficient or whatever. But that's not what people think they're getting when you hear grass-finished. You think they're raised on a pasture like the one we’re on. It's not necessarily the case.”
So, while grass-fed beef has become a desired label, it probably doesn’t guarantee what you think it does.
Pasture-Raised: Chicken | Eggs | Beef | Pork
Originally, the term pasture-raised was created to combat other misleading terminology like grass-fed, cage-free, and free-range. Unfortunately, “pasture-raised” is the most greenwashed term in the industry.
Paul said that for the USDA, it’s essentially a synonym for free-range chicken. But, a consumer study run by Pasturebird found that 98% of people who pay for pasture-raised meat or eggs truly think the animal spent time on pasture.
To Paul, truly pasture-raised meat means:
Similar to regenerative farming, pasture-raised animals just make sense. They don't need antibiotics or vaccines because they're living healthy lives. It’s how nature intended.
But the term pasture-raised has gotten extremely warped. To include the terminology on your label, you only need a one-paragraph affidavit to the USDA. There is no regulation or accountability, just your word. As you can imagine, this is widely taken advantage of by corporate companies.
Here’s how Paul described some of the most common “pasture-raised chicken” brands at the grocery:
“You can have a farm with 24,000 birds living on top of each other with limited access to the outdoors. Maybe they pop their head out seasonally; maybe they don't. You could have a bird that's sold as a pasture-raised chicken or pasture-raised eggs but has never been outside once in its life. And I would actually say that's the rule rather than the exception.
99% of pasture-raised eggs in the store are free-range, marketed as pasture-raised. They're not actually spending any meaningful time foraging or doing anything. Yet they're sold at a pasture-raised price point.”
Ironically enough, Paul thinks some of the brands “only” claiming free-range are actually being more honest + transparent with their claims. Paul is currently in talks with the USDA, fighting for regulations around the term “pasture-raised.”
The next part of our conversation led to a lesser-known truth in the world of meat production: meat isn't inherently bad for the environment. And there’s a strong case that meat-free diets might be worse for the environment than consuming ethical meat.
The Controversial Truth About Veganism + Vegetarianism
Paul’s a firm believer that consuming ethical animal food doesn’t have to mean cutting meat out of one’s diet.
Still, his first comment was about his respect for vegans and vegetarians. Here’s how he explained their shared ethos and intention:
“Those are our people. They’re trying to do right by animal welfare and the environment.”
Paul explained that there are many misunderstandings about people who choose to eliminate meat or animal products from their diet. These people just want to do the least amount of harm, which is honorable. But as Paul believes, a meatless diet isn’t the way to accomplish that unless you can grow everything yourself.
Here’s why meatless diets aren’t the answer:
Paul backed up his argument with a fascinating comparison. If we compare caterpillars to cows, say they’re both equally valuable as living creatures, eating meat is actually much more ethical and earth-friendly.
Wait what?
Okay, let’s step back for a moment. Sure, aside from the environmental damage, monocrop farms can provide vegetables or fruits that avoid meat consumption. But as Paul pointed out, we should also consider the millions of bugs (caterpillars, in our comparison) killed with pesticides.
With this in mind, ethically taking the life of one regeneratively raised cow is a pretty reasonable tradeoff. A cow can provide roughly 400 pounds of meat or 1,000 meals. On the other hand, a salad could cause a billion deaths if you count bugs as equal animals.
This is not to discredit the fact that many people are well-intentioned. They’re just being tricked by what Paul calls “really solid marketing.”
This is why honest, regenerative farming goes hand-in-hand with the concept of ethical food that respects the lives of animals.
Why Regenerative Farming Provides the Most Ethical Meat
Pasturebird has customers who switch from veganism or vegetarianism. Paul says they’re always respected, and there's no judgment. Everyone is welcome.
That’s why it’s essential to debunk the misleading narrative that animals are bad for the environment. Here’s how Paul explained it:
“Animals are amazing for the environment. Manure is the best fertilizer in the world. It’s better than anything humans have come up with.
Animals are only bad for the environment when raised in factory and feedlot settings.
Historically, what we’re doing is normal, but we’re viewed as the weird ones. Regenerative agriculture 100 years ago just would have been standard farming.”
Regenerative agriculture uses ancestral wisdom, with animals and plants in symbiosis, to improve the land. As Paul puts it, it’s not a new idea; we just forgot about it in the last 60-70 years.
“This is how plants and animals have been – raised together for a long time. Animals feed plants. Plants feed animals. We've separated the two in a crazy way, but in third-world countries, they inherently understand you need animals to grow plants, and you need plants to grow animals. And it's a beautiful creation, like symbiosis, that I think we're going to get back to.”
Simply put, it’s the intelligence of nature – unearthed.
Cleaner Meat = Cleaner Planet + Healthier People
We loved Paul’s balanced take on sourcing ethical meat and making the best educated decisions possible about our food. Along the way, he reminded us that while this can all feel depressing, it’s important to not let ourselves get bogged down and feel hopeless.
“Too many people are getting taken advantage of, and it's just not fair to the 900 small local family farms that are doing authentic pasture-raised and getting beat in the market by these handful of farms faking it.”
Knowledge is the first step to demanding change for the health of ourselves and the planet. So whether you can afford pasture-raised meat 100% or 10% of the time, it makes an impact.
For Paul, regenerative farming is about going way beyond the bare minimum of the certification requirements. Integrity is key. The goal should always be to produce great products for people spending hard-earned money.
To more ethical + pasture-raised goodness ahead,
XO
*If you enjoyed this post, check out the full episode of Grounded Wellness to hear Paul and Bethany cover other topics like:
→ Why Paul is actually okay with non-regenerative farms that are transparent and honest
→ Family stories from their time living on the farm together in a small farmhouse
→ The real reason grass-fed + finished beef is more expensive than grain-fed beef
→ How Paul is advocating for proper standards with the term “pasture-raised”
→ The moment it clicked for Bethany that her vegetarian diet didn’t make sense
→ Intentionally merging work and life in an integrated balance
→ Why transparency is going to be the next big trend in meat production
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